Author Topic: WonderCon 2014 News  (Read 21970 times)

Offline Stitch101

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2013, 10:38:38 AM »
Yeah, with APE moving locations for next year, I could see them expanding it to be a larger Convention in vain of WonderCon. I would have only two things to say about that though:

1. Don't lose the APE aspect of it! I think they should still set aside at least 35%, if not more depending on the new locations size compared the room they had at Concourse, of Exhibit Hall exclusively for independent and self publishers. Doing this could actually help those independent publishers. APE bring in about 5-6 thousand attendees every year. By expanding the Con around them, they expand the "audience" of people who attend and boost overall attendance close to WonderCon numbers in the tens of thousands. They would have the opportunity to present their work to guests who would have skipped APE all together.

2. Don't brand it WonderCon and rebrand WonderCon in Anaheim. I have two reasons for this. Firstly, if they do go the route of expanding APE, the convention would be a new animal all together, a hybrid of sorts, and branding it WonderCon I think would do a disservice to the APE roots. It would almost be a whole new con. Give it a new name it can grow by on its own merits, not on the tails on WonderCon. Secondly, WonderCon itself has already made a name for itself in Anaheim and has been picking up Hollywood support. Up and rebranding it could cause apprehension on the part of Hollywood studios who would be willing to back WonderCon because of the recognition the name carries, but possibly would be more hesitant of giving support to the Con, especially when they don't know how the rebranding will effect attendance numbers and how people view the Con. Of course that apprehension could be lessened because of CCI being behind it, but it's still a gamble.
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Offline Miss Kitty

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 10:52:46 AM »
It's a VERY safe bet that Wondercon is staying in Anaheim and that they are gearing up for Wondercon SF, but a scaled down version as soon as next year.

And regarding SDCC, it's staying in SD. When you hear these stories about Vegas or other locations, don't get caught up in the feeding frenzy. It's just not going to happen for sooooo many reasons.

Offline SamTurtledove

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 11:08:03 AM »
I agree about the A.P.E/WC possibility, Yzrfan.

Do you get an uneasy feeling that WC Anaheim, in light of the ongoing pattern of possible 2015 Disney D23 and SWCelebrations, seem inviting as an easy sell for Disney's growing convention pattern?  Reed Pop does multiple cons, which right now include Celebrations, but only WC seems on par with a more mature D23-Hollywood.  Plus, didn't CCI hedge out/capitalize on Wizard World's groundwork in Anaheim?

I think CCI really does want to go back to the North, but not to have three Cons.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 11:11:41 AM by SamTurtledove »

Offline hikanteki

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 11:08:57 AM »
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1. Don't lose the APE aspect of it! I think they should still set aside at least 35%, if not more depending on the new locations size compared the room they had at Concourse, of Exhibit Hall exclusively for independent and self publishers. Doing this could actually help those independent publishers. APE bring in about 5-6 thousand attendees every year. By expanding the Con around them, they expand the "audience" of people who attend and boost overall attendance close to WonderCon numbers in the tens of thousands. They would have the opportunity to present their work to guests who would have skipped APE all together.

I agree with all of the above.

Quote
2. Don't brand it WonderCon and rebrand WonderCon in Anaheim. I have two reasons for this. Firstly, if they do go the route of expanding APE, the convention would be a new animal all together, a hybrid of sorts, and branding it WonderCon I think would do a disservice to the APE roots. It would almost be a whole new con. Give it a new name it can grow by on its own merits, not on the tails on WonderCon.

These same arguments could be used in favor of calling the Anaheim con something other than WonderCon, IMO.  WonderCon was in SF for 10 years and Oakland for 15 before that, so it could be argued that calling the con in Anaheim "WonderCon" does a disservice to its Bay Area roots, and that the con in Anaheim should have grown by its own merits rather than take the name of something that was already around for 25 years.  (For the record, I don't really have a problem with either of them being called WonderCon, but it makes no sense to say that a CCI convention in SF is going to be riding on the tails of WonderCon.)

Quote
Secondly, WonderCon itself has already made a name for itself in Anaheim and has been picking up Hollywood support. Up and rebranding it could cause apprehension on the part of Hollywood studios who would be willing to back WonderCon because of the recognition the name carries, but possibly would be more hesitant of giving support to the Con, especially when they don't know how the rebranding will effect attendance numbers and how people view the Con. Of course that apprehension could be lessened because of CCI being behind it, but it's still a gamble.

WonderCon had made a name for itself and had Hollywood support when it was in SF, primarily because of CCI being behind it.  In 2011 the attendance by CCI's own estimates was at 49,000+.  As long as it's somewhere where the studios are willing to travel, I doubt attendance would be hurt.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 11:14:12 AM by hikanteki »

Offline Khaaaaaaanh!!!

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 11:52:46 AM »
During the Talkback Panel, one of the attendees thanked CCI for bringing WonderCon back to SF for 2014. John (the CCI rep) did not comment or confirm one way or the other. The attendee made his comment, some folks applauded and then he walked back to his seat so I don't know if he was stating something fact that wasn't announced yet or if he was asking a question in the form of a statement?
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Offline Yzrfan

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WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2013, 11:55:38 AM »
Anaheim won't be getting burned out on Cons. D23 and Star Wars Celebrations are every couple years. Who knows this might be D23's last time in CA. We are getting Star Wars Celebration in 2015, so D23 will probably be in Florida that year.  WCA will be staying.
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Offline Stitch101

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2013, 12:07:09 PM »
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These same arguments could be used in favor of calling the Anaheim con something other than WonderCon, IMO.  WonderCon was in SF for 10 years and Oakland for 15 before that, so it could be argued that calling the con in Anaheim "WonderCon" does a disservice to its Bay Area roots, and that the con in Anaheim should have grown by its own merits rather than take the name of something that was already around for 25 years.  (For the record, I don't really have a problem with either of them being called WonderCon, but it makes no sense to say that a CCI convention in SF is going to be riding on the tails of WonderCon.)

There is a difference though. While yes, WonderCon did move to Anaheim, it is essentially the same Con, just different location. I was talking though about the possibility of APE expanding and becoming a larger Con. APE isn't WonderCon. It's a different type of Con all together. I just don't think it's right to expand APE into a larger Con and then name it WonderCon to draw in on the name recognition. The WonderCon convention holds in its name certain expectations from its guests, many of whom don't attend APE. I would worry that by making APE larger, and branding it WonderCon, that we would see the APE aspect of the Con slowly be cannablized and taken over by the larger vendors and Exhibits that guests expect from WonderCon, basically ending APE as we know it. That's why if the decide to go that route I'd perfer to see them rebrand it as something new and different. By doing that, they get to set the tone of how they want to Con to start off as and build expectations, not try to live up to expectations already existing to another brand name thus possibly forcing out the APE aspect.

Now I have no problem with them moving WonderCon back to SF (though I do admit I like it being close to me when it's in Anaheim) and I'd even be on board for them splitting it into two WonderCon's, one in Anaheim and one in SF, as long as APE was left alone and not absorbed into WonderCon SF.
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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2013, 12:35:43 PM »
What is attendance like?  Did some searching and last I can find is somewhere around +50K
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Offline hikanteki

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 02:07:48 PM »
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What is attendance like?  Did some searching and last I can find is somewhere around +50K

Yes that is the ballpark. 

2009: 34,000
2010: 39,000
2011: 49,500

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I just found a statement by Glanzer saying that 2012 had just shy of 40,000 people: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I haven't found anything official for 2013 yet, but this site says 46,000: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If 2012 was 40,000, then 46,000 would seem correct for 2013.  The author implies that they got most of these numbers directly from the horse's mouth, or from an officially published memo.  She hasn't answered where exactly she got WonderCon's yet from.

Offline karatekid

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 02:34:24 PM »
How much is history worth? Tradition? How much do we or CCI value it vs $$. That's really what it comes down to and at the core of this WonderCon Anaheim/San Francisco issue.

Let's establish and make this clear, "Wondercon" IS a San Francisco/Bay Area/NorCal show. Someone already noted the almost quarter century that it has been here. It was born here. It was raised here. There would be no WonderCon Anaheim if not for WonderCon San Francisco! NorCal turned it into something big enough that it could move to Anaheim, use the name and still be successful. So everyone "owes" and needs to be respectful of WonderCon SF. We would not even be having this conversation if not for WonderCon SF!

Next, the show was plenty successful in San Francisco. Check the numbers! Furthermore, qualitatively the attendees, exhibitors and others could vouch and verify the growth and success. We got more and larger Entertainment coming through, bigger vendors, extensive and quality programming, etc.

So what's the problem? Why are we having this debate? Why wouldn't it just be in SF with all that "success?" Anyone care to guess?? There's only one answer. It's always the same ...

$$$$$ Cha - Ching!! Do not be naive and believe it has something to do with renovations and ideal dates. If CCI wanted WonderCon to be in NorCal it could have been. There were enough alternate venues during renovations and enough available dates last year. So I'd bet any amount of money that Moscone Center charges way more than Anaheim Convention Center and Moscone is smaller and probably not as nice as Anaheim CC. San Francisco in general is more expensive for everything from food to hotels to parking ... and there's less of it (hotels/parking).

So let's see ... Bigger Facilility, Nicer Facility, Cost Less, minimal attendance drop, much more ability to grow ... facility and content wise because we are closer and convenient to things like Hollywood and big vendors. Now tell me, from a pure business standpoint, what would you choose? It's a no brainer isn't it? There is not one person on this board or anywhere in their right mind, if they were running this business would not go with Anaheim. So the "only" card SF has is sentiment ... history, tradition ... because pretty much everything else favors Anaheim. Heck, even the weather in March is more favorable typically in SoCal. So I ask, does CCI value history and tradition or like most big entities and business value $$$. Oh and don't fool yourself about this non-profit "philosophy" that's naive.

I'm one that is a traditionalist, appreciates and values history, so I hope WonderCon returns to the Bay Area. The same way, I want Comic Con to stay in San Diego and not Las Vegas or LA, etc. It's where they should be, but I'm not optimistic. There's no reason to be is there? And no, do not throw the Bay Area a bone and do some expanded APE or create a diluted WonderCon SF that is going to look like some small time convention. At that point, I'd rather just do WonderCon Anaheim, have it be of the highest quality and I'll fly or drive down! 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 02:43:31 PM by karatekid »
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Offline Yzrfan

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WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2013, 02:44:52 PM »
For all the people who joined after, or just before SDCC 2013, we went round and round last year on this topic earlier. People want for it to stay and people want for it to leave. It's the nature of the beast. No one will ever be happy. People can call themselves experts because they might have been to a con once or twice or because they have a blog. Lets leave things to rest like they were. And NO people don't need to start talking about SDCC moving either. We have been there done that. Lets just leave it at this, lets see what CCI has planned. Whatever they decide on, someone will always be a*s hurt.
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Offline karatekid

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2013, 03:24:54 PM »
Agreed. Let's see what happens. That's all we can do. Let's just be sure to appreciate and be respectful of WonderCon San Francisco and it's rich history and tradition. So please kill any APE can be the little scrap we get in NorCal or it be "expanded" ... whatever that means ... and then somehow be happy. I've made the trek the last 2 years to Anaheim and I'll do it again. So a quality show is my priority ... wherever it is.
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Offline hikanteki

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2013, 03:26:54 PM »
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For all the people who joined after, or just before SDCC 2013, we went round and round last year on this topic earlier. People want for it to stay and people want for it to leave. It's the nature of the beast. No one will ever be happy. People can call themselves experts because they might have been to a con once or twice or because they have a blog. Lets leave things to rest like they were. And NO people don't need to start talking about SDCC moving either. We have been there done that. Lets just leave it at this, lets see what CCI has planned. Whatever they decide on, someone will always be a*s hurt.

Then what's the point of having a discussion board?  I think a lot of new and/or relevant points have been brought up in this topic.

Offline Stitch101

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2013, 03:56:16 PM »
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Agreed. Let's see what happens. That's all we can do. Let's just be sure to appreciate and be respectful of WonderCon San Francisco and it's rich history and tradition. So please kill any APE can be the little scrap we get in NorCal or it be "expanded" ... whatever that means ... and then somehow be happy. I've made the trek the last 2 years to Anaheim and I'll do it again. So a quality show is my priority ... wherever it is.

A small show can't be a quality show? Personally, I have found some of my favorite Cons have been smaller ones. And your telling me that you wouldn't welcome a Con in SF unless its the full WonderCon? That seems a little... Extreme. Writing off a Con that technically doesn't even exist yet, and therefore you know nothing about it.

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For all the people who joined after, or just before SDCC 2013, we went round and round last year on this topic earlier. People want for it to stay and people want for it to leave. It's the nature of the beast. No one will ever be happy. People can call themselves experts because they might have been to a con once or twice or because they have a blog. Lets leave things to rest like they were. And NO people don't need to start talking about SDCC moving either. We have been there done that. Lets just leave it at this, lets see what CCI has planned. Whatever they decide on, someone will always be a*s hurt.

Your right, not all of us were around when you had your last discussion. Some of the info we have been discussing likewise wasn't around when you last had the discussion. You're right that no solution is going to please everyone, but this is a discussion board were you... You know, discuss things. And one of the biggest things about WonderCon, with different conflicting reports that have sprung up, is where it'll be next year or if it'll even be "one" event. Whether or not you had the discussion before doesn't make the discussion any less relevant now.

And I don't remember anyone claiming to be experts. We are all on the forum because we love Cons. Sure, many of us have been to a few, some more then others. And yes, we might use our experience and knowledge of those Cons to try and help us speculate what might happen in the future, but that doesn't mean we are claiming to be experts. We are just using one more tool, personal experience, to help us in forming opinions.

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Then what's the point of having a discussion board?  I think a lot of new and/or relevant points have been brought up in this topic.

I agree. That's what forums like these are for, to discuss, speculate, and find some kind of way to obsess over the things we love while we wait for them to come around again!  :P
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Offline SamTurtledove

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2013, 04:48:04 PM »
 :o Other than settling on the GPS coordinates of the next WC2014, did anyone have a seasonal preferance fo WC2014 aka should it be the spring before SDCC, as the ultimate preview night? or after SDCC, when we are just shy of the family Holidays in October?

Mine is Spring, but not Easter.

Offline Khaaaaaaanh!!!

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2013, 05:17:27 PM »
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Then what's the point of having a discussion board?  I think a lot of new and/or relevant points have been brought up in this topic.

Agreed.

As long as there are no personal attacks, I think this is an interesting discussion to go around and around on. I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we'll be having a similar discussion if San Diego still hasn't expanded the convention center and CCI drags their feet on any type of contract extension.

It'd just be nice if CCI would officially announce something so that the speculation can stop and the planning can begin. They've GOT to know where they'll be holding the show but are waiting on the announcement for some reason. I can't imagine they haven't planned that far out yet.
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Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2013, 06:06:09 PM »
I agree that CCI has more information than they're letting on. If I were to speculate, it would be that they have Spring Anaheim dates again, but are still jockeying for San Francisco dates. Just a guess though.

As for dates, I too prefer the Spring. And I liked Easter weekend, not because it was Easter, but because it was easy to take the kids out of school (since they were on Spring Break). For this year, it would work best for us if it were April 4-6.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 06:08:22 PM by Transmute Jun »
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Offline Stitch101

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2013, 06:11:08 PM »
I personally don't mind if its on Easter weekend. I don't come from an overly religious family (Church on Christmas only kinda family) and all my family lives onthe east coast, so for me Easter is kinda just another day. Although I guess it would make it a little harder to take time off work. Having to compete with co-workers who have kids on Spring break and people traveling to see family for Easter.

On second thought, why not a couple weeks before Easter?
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Offline Pyramid

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2013, 07:21:48 PM »
I've been to WonderCon four times and each time it was in SF.  When it first moved to Anaheim, I knew it would stay.  Believe me it will stay.  You have to be blind to not see how Hollywood has changed Comic Con and the same thing is happening to Wondercon.  2011 was my last year at WC and as long as it's in Anaheim, I will not go.  The main reason I cannot go is SDCC which is a big expense and a hell of a drive on the 5.  I could sit and moan about it but I'll just go to Big Wow Fest.  :)  It's an actual comic book convention!   
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Offline hikanteki

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2013, 11:32:22 AM »
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I've been to WonderCon four times and each time it was in SF.  When it first moved to Anaheim, I knew it would stay.  Believe me it will stay.  You have to be blind to not see how Hollywood has changed Comic Con and the same thing is happening to Wondercon.  2011 was my last year at WC and as long as it's in Anaheim, I will not go.  The main reason I cannot go is SDCC which is a big expense and a hell of a drive on the 5.  I could sit and moan about it but I'll just go to Big Wow Fest.  :)  It's an actual comic book convention!

Yeah pretty much.  I probably would have moaned for a bit and stopped shortly after if they had just definitively announced they were moving to Anaheim, rather than getting the continued messages from WonderCon saying "we want to return to SF" and then seeing a bunch of open dates at Moscone center, and even reading comments from Glanzer that they were offered dates in SF in both 2012 and 2013 (especially when some of the Glanzer and CCI statements I've read contradict each other.)  I just think it's tacky for an organization as prominent as CCI to keep on letting on so many people like this.

Regarding Big Wow, I've never been, partly because it's the week before Fanime and usually been tiny, but I've heard the last one was quite successful, so I'll probably will check it out next year especially after this year's Fanime registration line snafu.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 11:35:18 AM by hikanteki »

Offline Pyramid

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2013, 11:46:47 AM »
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Yeah pretty much.  I probably would have moaned for a bit and stopped shortly after if they had just definitively announced they were moving to Anaheim, rather than getting the continued messages from WonderCon saying "we want to return to SF" and then seeing a bunch of open dates at Moscone center, and even reading comments from Glanzer that they were offered dates in SF in both 2012 and 2013 (especially when some of the Glanzer and CCI statements I've read contradict each other.)  I just think it's tacky for an organization as prominent as CCI to keep on letting on so many people like this.

Regarding Big Wow, I've never been, partly because it's the week before Fanime and usually been tiny, but I've heard the last one was quite successful, so I'll probably will check it out next year especially after this year's Fanime registration line snafu.

I think their thinking is that they are avoiding public backlash from Nor - Cal - ers.  I also would prefer a straight response and while I don't excuse the runaround, there's more going on bts than we know.  If you're into comics, than you'll like Big Wow Fest!  :)
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Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2013, 06:47:59 PM »
I agree that it seems like CCI is not telling e whole story and I wish they would just be honest as to their intentions to keep it in Anaheim or actually return to SF.
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Offline Jim Watari

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2013, 07:11:23 PM »
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I agree that it seems like CCI is not telling e whole story and I wish they would just be honest as to their intentions to keep it in Anaheim or actually return to SF.

I'm sure the question will come up in tomorrow's Google + Hangout with Glanzer , well maybe not since it is a SDCC follow up

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Offline Pyramid

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Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2013, 08:49:54 PM »
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I'm sure the question will come up in tomorrow's Google + Hangout with Glanzer , well maybe not since it is a SDCC follow up

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Thanks for posting this Jim!  I just reactivated my Google account.  I clicked the +1, does that mean I've joined?
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Re: Re: WonderCon 2014 News
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2013, 06:17:22 AM »
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On second thought, why not a couple weeks before Easter?

I think Easter just came early this past year so they had it then. I think it'd normally be a week or two ahead of it. I like Spring because I'm local and I don't have any big expenses then. There's two conventions I go to in Nov and you have all that Christmas/holiday shopping to get done.

One thing to consider though is that March/April is spring break time and the cost of plane tickets and hotels goes up esp in SoCal. But, there's not that many things going on. Go earlier to Feb and you hit Valentine's day plans. Go later and you hit Mother's day and school graduation plans.

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